Comments on: Project Better Place Gives Details: GPS, Cell-phone Plans and Speedy Battery Exchange http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/ Helping the Earth with Technology Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:02:09 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Smartphones: the Ultimate Model for Green Cars? http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-34910 Smartphones: the Ultimate Model for Green Cars? Fri, 17 Jul 2009 04:01:30 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-34910 <p>[...] is working to build out battery charging and swapping stations, plans to provide batteries with mileage plans modeled after cell phone plans. Consumers would subscribe to a certain number of miles per month rather than paying up front for a [...]</p> [...] is working to build out battery charging and swapping stations, plans to provide batteries with mileage plans modeled after cell phone plans. Consumers would subscribe to a certain number of miles per month rather than paying up front for a [...]

]]> By: freecellphone http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-33494 freecellphone Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:51:13 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-33494 <p>There is obviously a lot to know about this. I think you made some good points in Features also.</p> There is obviously a lot to know about this. I think you made some good points in Features also.

]]> By: Better Place CFO Says Economy’s Not Causing Pain | ProducerLink http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-26556 Better Place CFO Says Economy’s Not Causing Pain | ProducerLink Fri, 06 Mar 2009 16:58:23 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-26556 <p>[...] scenario: lithium-ion battery and electric vehicle supplies neatly align with consumer demand for a subscription battery exchange service (a huge gamble), and Better Place starts generating revenue so it doesn’t have to keep [...]</p> [...] scenario: lithium-ion battery and electric vehicle supplies neatly align with consumer demand for a subscription battery exchange service (a huge gamble), and Better Place starts generating revenue so it doesn’t have to keep [...]

]]> By: How Will Better Place’s Business Model Hold Up in the Downturn? « Earth2Tech http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-26526 How Will Better Place’s Business Model Hold Up in the Downturn? « Earth2Tech Fri, 06 Mar 2009 08:02:15 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-26526 <p>[...] scenario: lithium-ion battery and electric vehicle supplies neatly align with consumer demand for a subscription battery exchange service (a huge gamble), and Better Place starts generating revenue so it doesn’t have to keep [...]</p> [...] scenario: lithium-ion battery and electric vehicle supplies neatly align with consumer demand for a subscription battery exchange service (a huge gamble), and Better Place starts generating revenue so it doesn’t have to keep [...]

]]> By: mr joel addo http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-19200 mr joel addo Mon, 20 Oct 2008 11:28:01 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-19200 <p>Dear Sir/Madam , Good Day! I would like to apply through this medium for your co-operation and to secure an opportunity to invest and do joint business with you in your country.(Internet) has been greatly abused, I choose to reach you through it because it still remains the fastest, surest and most secured medium of communication I have substantial capital (i.e. US$5,000,000.00) I honourably intend to invest in your country in any very lucrative business venture of which you are to advise and execute the said venture over there for the mutual benefit of both of us. Do note that this fund is my personal inheritance from my late father who founded this company Bizgroup LTD which I work for. The fund was realised after the sharing of shares amonst the shareholders of the company, and I intend investing my share with your assistance in a viable and lucrative business venture. Your able co-operation is needed to become my business partner in your country and create ideas on how this money will be invested, and properly managed, after the money is transferred to your custody, with your assistance. Meanwhile, upon indication of your willingness to handle this transaction sincerely by protecting our interests, and upon your acceptance of this proposal, I will furnish you with the full detailed information, procedure involved and mutually agree on your percentage interest or share holding for helping me to secure the release of the deposit and investing the money. I shall be glad to receive your soonest response and hope to do some good business with you. I do urge you to give this matter the immediate attention it deserves. Do feel free to email me back for further clarifications. Do have a nice day and I look forward to read from you soon.</p> <p>Regards,</p> <p>Mr Joel Addo EMAIL ID joel_addo200@yahoo.com</p> Dear Sir/Madam ,
Good Day! I would like to apply through this medium for your co-operation and to secure an opportunity to invest and do joint business with you in your country.(Internet) has been greatly abused, I choose to reach you through it because it still remains the fastest, surest and most secured medium of communication
I have substantial capital (i.e. US$5,000,000.00) I honourably intend to invest in your country in any very lucrative business venture of which you are to advise and execute the said venture over there for the mutual benefit of both of us. Do note that this fund is my personal inheritance from my late father who founded this company Bizgroup LTD which I work for. The fund was realised after the sharing of shares amonst the shareholders of the company, and I intend investing my share with your assistance in a viable and lucrative business venture.
Your able co-operation is needed to become my business partner in your country and create ideas on how this money will be invested, and properly managed, after the money is transferred to your custody, with your assistance.
Meanwhile, upon indication of your willingness to handle this transaction sincerely by protecting our interests, and upon your acceptance of this proposal, I will furnish you with the full detailed information, procedure involved and mutually agree on your percentage interest or share holding for helping me to secure the release of the deposit and investing the money.
I shall be glad to receive your soonest response and hope to do some good business with you. I do urge you to give this matter the immediate attention it deserves. Do feel free to email me back for further clarifications.
Do have a nice day and I look forward to read from you soon.

Regards,

Mr Joel Addo
EMAIL ID joel_addo200@yahoo.com

]]> By: GPS Obsessed » Project Better Place Will Use GPS To Guide You To Open Electric Car Charging Stations http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-10872 GPS Obsessed » Project Better Place Will Use GPS To Guide You To Open Electric Car Charging Stations Sun, 27 Apr 2008 11:00:22 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-10872 <p>[...] via earth2tech [...]</p> [...] via earth2tech [...]

]]> By: Jim http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-10617 Jim Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:47:13 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-10617 <p>I don't understand the Deutsche Bank numbers. They say 7 cents per mile.</p> <p>Let's assume the pack is good for 2000 charges. A car like a Prius needs about 400 W-hrs to go a mile (more if you are going fast, but let's call it 400 W-hrs or 0.4 kW-hr). Since the battery is charged once, you need to pro-rate 1/2000 of the cost of the battery for the use of the electricity. Electricity itself, at 10 cents/per kW-hr, would be about 4 cents (I'll throw in the charger for free, and also assume its 100% efficient.) That leave 3 cents for the battery. With 2000 charges, that equates to $150/kW-hr for the battery pack.</p> <p>That's at least a factor of 4 higher than what can be purchased today with NiMH. Lithium ions are much more expensive.</p> <p>And that includes no money for all the swapping stations, etc.</p> <p>The numbers don't seem to work for me.</p> I don’t understand the Deutsche Bank numbers. They say 7 cents per mile.

Let’s assume the pack is good for 2000 charges. A car like a Prius needs about 400 W-hrs to go a mile (more if you are going fast, but let’s call it 400 W-hrs or 0.4 kW-hr). Since the battery is charged once, you need to pro-rate 1/2000 of the cost of the battery for the use of the electricity. Electricity itself, at 10 cents/per kW-hr, would be about 4 cents (I’ll throw in the charger for free, and also assume its 100% efficient.) That leave 3 cents for the battery. With 2000 charges, that equates to $150/kW-hr for the battery pack.

That’s at least a factor of 4 higher than what can be purchased today with NiMH. Lithium ions are much more expensive.

And that includes no money for all the swapping stations, etc.

The numbers don’t seem to work for me.

]]> By: Jim http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-10614 Jim Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:14:08 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-10614 <p>Just because Israel and Denmark have signed up doesn't mean it makes sense. A lot of countries signed up for the Hydrogen Economy, which also made no sense.</p> <p>Canyon is basically right; the main expense is in the batteries, which I don't think will fare any better being shuffled around from car to car. Even with a battery pack carefully tuned for the car used, with in-place cooling systems, etc. you still pay a lot for each charge, when pro-rating the 2,000 charge lifetime of the battery. About $4/gallon equivalent at today's battery prices. This system doesn't get around that.</p> <p>Compare this with a PHEV that gets 20 or so miles all-electric and then can use a renewable fuel such as biomethane to provide range. Even if the fuel costs are high, the overall cost of use of the vehicle is reasonable. And the infrastructure? A few new kinds of fuel pumps -- not warehouses of battery packs and all the hardware and depots for exchanging them.</p> <p>I always wondered how such exchange networks could insure quality control of the battery packs being exchanged in. Plus the standardization needed will require only 1 kind of battery pack and thus really only one kind of vehicle. Again, compare with a PHEV, which has no such limitations.</p> <p>I won't go so far to say it's a con, but it is a really stupid idea.</p> Just because Israel and Denmark have signed up doesn’t mean it makes sense. A lot of countries signed up for the Hydrogen Economy, which also made no sense.

Canyon is basically right; the main expense is in the batteries, which I don’t think will fare any better being shuffled around from car to car. Even with a battery pack carefully tuned for the car used, with in-place cooling systems, etc. you still pay a lot for each charge, when pro-rating the 2,000 charge lifetime of the battery. About $4/gallon equivalent at today’s battery prices. This system doesn’t get around that.

Compare this with a PHEV that gets 20 or so miles all-electric and then can use a renewable fuel such as biomethane to provide range. Even if the fuel costs are high, the overall cost of use of the vehicle is reasonable. And the infrastructure? A few new kinds of fuel pumps — not warehouses of battery packs and all the hardware and depots for exchanging them.

I always wondered how such exchange networks could insure quality control of the battery packs being exchanged in. Plus the standardization needed will require only 1 kind of battery pack and thus really only one kind of vehicle. Again, compare with a PHEV, which has no such limitations.

I won’t go so far to say it’s a con, but it is a really stupid idea.

]]> By: shai http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-10579 shai Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:15:55 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-10579 <p>Well said - being negative adds no value...</p> Well said – being negative adds no value…

]]> By: Ben B http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-10573 Ben B Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:13:27 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-10573 <p>I have a feeling that Shai might respond to your comment that his company "looks very much like a con." Aside from your personal attacks, your point that batteries make "electric cars economic oxymorons," is itself an oxymoron because products are not on the market that are not economical for at least somebody, typically the buyer & the seller at the same time. And Project Better Place, Nissan, Renault and their partners would not embark on this project if the car was not economical. What are you even talking about?</p> <p>Despite your uneducated criticisms and uneccessary attacks to Israel and Denmark being "desperate populations", it WILL be implemented. Shaiis a man of action, and has other men of action to create and sell this product.</p> I have a feeling that Shai might respond to your comment that his company “looks very much like a con.”
Aside from your personal attacks, your point that batteries make “electric cars economic oxymorons,” is itself an oxymoron because products are not on the market that are not economical for at least somebody, typically the buyer & the seller at the same time. And Project Better Place, Nissan, Renault and their partners would not embark on this project if the car was not economical. What are you even talking about?

Despite your uneducated criticisms and uneccessary attacks to Israel and Denmark being “desperate populations”, it WILL be implemented. Shaiis a man of action, and has other men of action to create and sell this product.

]]> By: Jim canyon http://earth2tech.com/2008/04/21/project-better-place-gives-details-gps-cell-phone-plans-and-speedy-battery-exchange/#comment-10562 Jim canyon Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:40:55 +0000 http://earth2tech.com/?p=1945#comment-10562 <p>Agassi's plan will never fly - better batteries within the next few years from BYD and EEStor will make his high cost plan obsolete. Agassi's main stupidity is in devising a scheme that increases the costs of the one component that makes electric cars economic oxymorons : the cost of the batteries. It looks very much like a con. Regardless, it will never be implemented - technology is moving past the bandaid, nonsensical approach offered by Agassi to the world's most desperate populations (Israel and Denmark)</p> Agassi’s plan will never fly – better batteries within the next few years from BYD and EEStor will make his high cost plan obsolete. Agassi’s main stupidity is in devising a scheme that increases the costs of the one component that makes electric cars economic
oxymorons : the cost of the batteries. It looks very much like a con. Regardless, it will never be implemented – technology is moving past the bandaid, nonsensical approach offered by Agassi to the world’s most desperate populations (Israel and Denmark)

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